Time Outs according to "How to talk so kids will Learn".

[moogie]

I'm reading 'How To Talk so kids willl Learn',  Its really helping me with my communication with c. 

Here is an excerpt about Time Outs:

"Time-out has a very friendly, innocent sound.  afetrall the youngster isn't being hit or yelled at.  She's just being stopped and removed from the scene.  But even though some authorities in the field of childcare recommend the method highly, the National Association for the Education of Young children includes Time out in its list of harmful disciplinary measures - right along with physical punishment, criticizing, blaming and shaming."

The authors then give a situation where a 4 yr old kicks another kid.  Here are two different scenarios for dealing with this situtaion.

Scenario one
the teacher/parent says: "Stop that! That is not a nice thing to do. You need to go to the Time Out - Right now!"

Chances are, as the child slowly walks to their timeout chair, they think "The teacher isn't fair.  she didn't see what Jeffrey did to me.  Its all his fault."  or  "Maybe I really am bad.  So bad i need to be sent away."

Scenario 2
The teacher/parent says: "You were so angry at Jeffrey that you kicked him.  Kicking isn't allowed.  Tell Jeffrey what you don't like with words... And you can!"

Chances are this time the child says to himself: "My teacher understands why i was mad at Jeffrey.  She wont let me kick him, but she thinks I can tell him what i think with words.  Maybe i can!"

The section goes on to say that it can be appropriate for a 'take a break place', a place on offer to cool down.

What do you guys think of all this.  As I've become more patient and controlled in what i say to Charlie (after reading most of the book), i don't see a need for Time Outs. 

[skeettafic]

I guess when I think of time outs I think of them as more of a cooling down period and not as much as a punishment in and of themselves.  I get so frustrated when parents I work with get into the power struggle of "he/she won't sit in the chair/on the step/etc. without moving, wiggling, talking, crying".  I have the most difficult time getting parents to accept that its okay if the kid goes from step to step or if they go sit and look at a book in their room when time out are used as a time to gain control of our emotions and reflect on the situation.  Most parents that I work with get so hung up on showing their kids that their in control that they lose sight of the bigger picture.

I think that any time a natural consequence or a teaching moment can be used as a redirection/consequence then that is what should happen.  Natural consequences are more effective than any artifical tactic than anyone can come up with.  I lnow it isn't possible in all cases but if parents would do more positive parenting than my job would be a whole lot easier (you agree, Kerry?)

[jnezmama02]

I agree w/ what Jessica says. I do think there are times in which a child is SO out of control of their emotions and just hitting and swatting at anything that they can not be reasoned w/ or expected to express how something made them feel.  That is what time out is for...a chance to cool down, calm down, and think about the situation. That's how it's used in our home...though occasionally, we do start getting into power struggles from time to time, until we remember the purpose of doing time outs in the first place (it is an easy line to cross...DH is especially bad for this).

I own the book you are quoting and personally, I found myself rolling my eyes a lot while reading it.  The guy has a way too utopian view of the world and of what kids can do/say. I personally found his examples a bit trite and hokey. But, that's just me. When I ask Jessie, at almost 4, why she did something...she either 1. says "I don't know" or 2. makes up a reason that I know has nothing to do w/ why she did something. ie. she grabs a toy out of Emily's hand and I tell her to give it back to Emily or the toy gets put up (a natural consequence). Instead of giving it back to Emily, she throws it at her. Now, I know she threw it b/c she was angry that she had to give it back and didn't want Emily to have it. But, if I ask her why, she'd say it was b/c she was tired or she wanted a drink. Nothing to do w/ the real reason...just a reason she made up b/c I asked her a question and she felt she was supposed to answer and those answers have worked in the past for other circumstances.  If I ask her how she felt, she might answer mad...but she almost never is able to answer why.  We as adults can identify why we did something, but often a child does not know the true reason they did something physical...it's an impulse...sometimes w/o true reason.  It's too "neat and pretty" to say that they can express that in words. 

[moogie]

Hope, I don't have a 4 yr old so I don't have the experience that you have with that age group.  I wont even guess at what that age can understand or communicate.  I do know though that Charlie is responding well to the ideas in this book.   I have been implementing many of the strategies in the book with Charlie.  I'm noticing instant changes for the good.  i usually start off with my normal response which has been rather impatient lately and just results in her negative behaviour escalating.  when my brain clicks in and i start looking at the situation and responding with strategies i've learnt from the book, Charlie calms down and is more rational. 

The book is written by 2 women with assistance from 2 teachers.  Something they actually suggest is to not ask an upset/unhappy child "why".  this can be too confronting and may cause the child to shutdown and you get the predictable "i don't know" answer.  The authors say(as Hope rightly said), that kids don't have the psychological sophistication to say or know their reason for doing something.  We can give them an educated guess so that they feel we are trying to understand.

I agree some of the examples are seemingly unrealistic but the basics of it i find are good to apply day to day.

[lorimm11]

I read (mostly skimmed) that book last year.  Since my son had just turned at that time, a lot of the book did not pertain to him.  But, what I really learned from the book was to let him figure things out on his own more.  Even a year later, whenever he asks "whats that Mama?"  I say "what do you think it is"  He usually comes up with an answer, and if not I will tell him.  Now that he is a little older, I will re-visit this book and check out more discipline info.  Generally I liked the book.